June 16, 1976
Scheuerman: We rejoice when we see people coming to the Lord God, wherever it may be and however it may be. Do you have the passage there?
Jayādvaita: Yes. “Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination.”
Scheuerman: Yes, we, too, see sin as an obstacle to communication and relationship with the Lord God.
Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. Read the purport.
Scheuerman: In fact, we define sin as that which separates us from the friendship of God.
Rakṣaṇa: So that means following God’s instructions, such as, “Thou shalt not kill,” right?
Jayādvaita: This is the purport. “Those eligible for elevation to the transcendental position are mentioned in this verse. For those who are sinful, atheistic, foolish and deceitful, it is very difficult to transcend the duality of desire and hate. Only those who have passed their lives in practicing the regulative principles of religion, who have acted piously and have conquered sinful reactions can accept devotional service and gradually rise to the pure knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then, gradually, they can meditate in trance on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the process of being situated on the spiritual platform. This elevation is possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the association of pure devotees who can deliver one from delusion. It is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one actually wants to be liberated, he must render service to the devotees; but one who associates with materialistic people is on the path leading to the darkest region of existence. All the devotees of the Lord traverse this earth just to recover the conditioned souls from their delusion. The impersonalists do not know that forgetting their constitutional position as subordinate to the Supreme Lord is the greatest violation of God’s law. Unless one is reinstated in his own constitutional position, it is not possible to understand the Supreme Personality or to be fully engaged in His transcendental loving service with determination.”Scheuerman: Yes, we can certainly agree with that.[Conversation C – Detroit, June 16, 1976]
2.) June 15, 1976
Jayādvaita: na caitad vidmaḥ kataran no garīyoyad vā jayema yadi vā no jayeyuḥyān eva hatvā na jijīviṣāmaste ‘vasthitāḥ pramukhe dhārtarāṣṭrāḥ(BG 2.6) “Nor do we know which is better—conquering them or being conquered by them. The sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, whom if we killed we should not care to live . . .”
Prabhupāda: Disturbing? (laughs) They can come here, that side.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: (children come in) They were going to guard you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Srila Prabhupāda: Guard me? Why?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: From the rain.
Srila Prabhupāda: No. It is all right. You sit down. Is it fine, you can sit? (some indistinct discussion while devotees move around to avoid rain) No, no.
Hari-śauri: Sit over this side.
Srila Prabhupāda: (japa)
Jayādvaita: “The sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, whom if we killed we should not care to live, are now standing before us on this battlefield.”
Purport: “Arjuna did not know whether he should fight and risk unnecessary violence, although fighting is the duty of the kṣatriyas, or whether he should refrain and live by begging. If he did not conquer the enemy, begging would be his only means of subsistence. Nor was there certainty of victory, because either side might emerge victorious. Even if victory awaited them (and their cause was justified), still, if the sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra died in battle, it would be very difficult to live in their absence. Under the circumstances, that would be another kind of defeat for them. All these considerations by Arjuna definitely prove that he was not only a great devotee of the Lord but that he was also highly enlightened and had complete control over his mind and senses. His desire to live by begging, although he was born in the royal household, is another sign of detachment. He was truly virtuous, as these qualities, combined with his faith in the words of instruction of Śrī Kṛṣṇa (his spiritual master), indicate. It is concluded that Arjuna was quite fit for liberation. Unless the senses are controlled, there is no chance of elevation to the platform of knowledge, and without knowledge and devotion there is no chance of liberation. Arjuna was competent in all these attributes, over and above his enormous attributes in his material relationships.”
kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥpṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma-sammūḍha-cetāḥyac chreyaḥ syān niścitaṁ brūhi tan meśiṣyas te ‘haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam(BG 2.7)
“Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me.”
Purport: “By nature’s own way the complete system of material activities is a source of perplexity for everyone. In every step there is perplexity, and therefore it behooves one to approach a bona fide spiritual master who can give one proper guidance for executing the purpose of life. All Vedic literatures advise us to approach a bona fide spiritual master to get free from the perplexities of life which happen without our desire.”
Srila Prabhupāda: Now you can discuss amongst yourselves whether you have approached such spiritual master. What is that? This purport?
Jayādvaita: Read again? “Therefore, it behooves one to approach a bona fide spiritual master who can give one proper guidance for executing the purpose of life. All Vedic literatures advise us to approach a bona fide spiritual master to get free from the perplexities of life which happen without our desire.”
Srila Prabhupāda: So, whether you have approached a spiritual master, that you can discuss. This is the necessity of approaching a spiritual master.
Srila Prabhupāda: Hmm. It must. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12) Jayādvaita: Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham.rabhupāda: Hmm. So, whether you have got such spiritual master who can guide you, proper guidance, what is stated there?
Jayādvaita: What is stated next?
Srila Prabhupāda: No.
Jayādvaita: Oh, whether we’ve got such a spiritual master?
Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayādvaita: Oh, yes, because…
Srila Prabhupāda: That you have to discuss.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: It says the qualification is that he frees one from all perplexities of life. So, we are practically experiencing that, that by following the instructions of our spiritual master all our perplexities are vanished. [Conversation D – Detroit-June 15, 1976]
3.) June 18, 1976
Indian man: The question is, one must be able to see if there’s a problem. People don’t see it as a problem
Srila Prabhupāda: Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says: “Here is your problem: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9).” (aside:) Find out this verse.
Srila Prabhupāda: Yes, find out. This is knowledge. Advancement of knowledge means one must be able to see that what are the actual problems. Just like the scientists, the philosophers, they’re trying to solve so many problems. But first of all, fix up what is the problem. Temporary problem, to make a solution, that is going on. But actual problem is this: na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The soul is not destroyed, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, at any time. One should be very prudent to see that “If I have no birth and no death, then what is this nonsense, birth and death?” That is knowledge. Why I am dying? Why there is birth problem? Why there is death problem? And as soon as there is birth problem, there is disease problem, there is old age problem. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says . . . what is the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi?
Jayādvaita: It’s in the list of items of knowledge, “The perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease.”
Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. And the cure, medicine, is also given, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then . . . everyone has to give up this body, but a person who is in thorough knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, then he, after giving up this body, he does not accept any more material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma. (aside:) Find out this verse.
Jayādvaita: “One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.”[Interview B – Toronto, June 18, 1976]
4.) June 18, 1976
Srila Prabhupāda: Everywhere, some tension. The Catholic, the Protestant, the black, the white, the Hindu, the Muslim. That must go on, because if we accept on the platform of dress, of body, then there must be ignorance. (aside:) Read that verse and explain to her.
Jayādvaita: “One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed to every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me.”
Srila Prabhupāda: Equally disposed. As soon as he knows that, “I am not this body. I am spirit soul,” then there is no distinction. Just like two American goes to India. So, when they understand that, “We are Americans,” immediately their interest become one, although they are in the foreign country. That is psychology. Similarly, as soon as we come to the spiritual platform, there is no such distinction as black, white, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Everything finished. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. (aside) You are reading the purport?
Jayādvaita: Purport: “To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further to become engaged in pure devotional service. This means that one who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Supreme Lord is already in a state of liberation, called brahma-bhūta, oneness with the Absolute. Without being one with the Supreme, the Absolute, one cannot render service unto Him. In the absolute conception, there is no difference between the served and the servitor; yet the distinction is there, in a higher spiritual sense.
Srila Prabhupāda: That’s all.
Jayādvaita: “In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God’s service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service to the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower. Higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances. For him, stone and gold are of equal value. This is the brahma-bhūta stage, and this stage is attained very easily . . .”[Interview A – Toronto- June 18, 1976]
5.) October 14, 1977
Srila Prabhupāda: One thing, you can keep open my Tenth Canto, Kṛṣṇa.
Jayādvaita: Kṛṣṇa book, Tenth Canto.
Srila Prabhupāda: That will help.
Jayādvaita: Kṛṣṇa book. Thirteenth or Fourteenth Chapter, Volume One. (indistinct background comments as they find book)
kim etad adbhutam ivavāsudeve ‘khilātmanivrajasya sātmanas tokeṣvapūrvaṁ prema vardhat(SB 10.13.36)
(Sanskrit—sātmanaḥ synonyms to śrī-kṛṣṇe iva)
Srila Prabhupāda: The affection was increasing not to māyā, but because Kṛṣṇa expanded Himself as everything. So, their whole life was meant for Kṛṣṇa. So, on account of Kṛṣṇa affection, the affection of the older calves were more than the new calves. What is written in the English Kṛṣṇa?
Jayādvaita: Kṛṣṇa? “One day when Kṛṣṇa, along with Balarāma, was maintaining the calves in the forest . . .”
Pradyumna: It’s just up here. (Pradymuna points out where section begins)
Jayādvaita: “Balarāma was astonished to see all the residents of Vṛndāvana so affectionate for their own children . . .” Is that right? Yes, this is all right. “. . . exactly as they had been for Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, the cows had grown affectionate for their calves as much as for Kṛṣṇa. Balarāma therefore concluded that the extraordinary show of affection was something mystical, either performed by the demigods or by some powerful man.”
Srila Prabhupāda: Is it clear now? Balarāma was surprised to see the action of yogamāyā; therefore, He inquired from Kṛṣṇa, “What is happening in this scene? What is that mystery?” Is it clear?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Srila Prabhupāda: In this way go very slow, but the discussion may be complete. So? You can go on.
Pradyumna: The next verse?
keyaṁ vā kuta āyātādaivī vā nāry utāsurīprāyo māyāstu me bharturnānyā me ‘pi vimohinī( SB 10.13.37)
Sanskrit—iyam to na bhavati)
Srila Prabhupāda: Balarāma was surprised, “This māyā may be some rākṣasī-māyā. But how rākṣasī-māyā can influence upon Balarāma? That is not possible. Therefore, it must be the māyā of Kṛṣṇa.” Therefore, He inquired. What is there in the English?
Jayādvaita:(reading from Kṛṣṇa book) “Balarāma inquired from Kṛṣṇa about the actual situation. He said, ‘My dear Kṛṣṇa, in the beginning I thought that all these cows, calves and cowherd boys were either great sages and saintly persons or demigods. But at the present it appears that they are actually Your expansions. They are all You. You Yourself are playing as the calves and cows and boys.’ “
Pradyumna: This is later.
Jayādvaita:This is later? Before that, “Balarāma had concluded that the extraordinary show of affection was something mystical, either performed by the demigods or some powerful man. Otherwise how could this wonderful change take place? He concluded that this mystical change must have been caused by Kṛṣṇa, whom Balarāma considered His worshipable Personality of Godhead. He thought, ‘It was arranged by Kṛṣṇa, and even I could not check its mystic power.’ Thus, Balarāma understood that all those boys and calves were only expansions of Kṛṣṇa.”[Conversation C – Vrndavana- October 14, 1977]
So, these excerpts show that Srila Prabhupada took pleasure in reading his books that were authorized.