Rupanuga vada khandana – Part 2 A refutation of Rupanuga dasa’s intepretation of the October 18, 1977 conversation by Mahesvara dasa (Mahesh raja) .
Mahesh Raja says:
13. February 2016 at 3:36 pm
Rupanuga das: Srila Prabhupada said the following during his arrival address at the Los Angeles Temple on May 5, 1972:
“So, we have got this message from Krsna, from Caitanya Mahaprabhu, from the Six Goswamis; later on Bhaktivinode Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur. And we are trying our bit to distribute this knowledge. Now tenth, eleventh, twelfth; my Guru Maharaj is the tenth from Caitanya Mahaprabhu, I am eleventh, you are twelfth.”
In the article, this last sentence was paraphrased from memory, but the meaning is still the same as Srila Prabhupada’s statement, which now becomes enhanced when taken in the context of his speech. He is obviously referring to his present disciples as the next in the disciplic succession he has just named and numbered, all of whom are directly initiating their own disciples.
Mahesh: this is just very CLEVER MANIPULATION from Rupanuga das to USE Srila Prabhupada’s words to make themselves as self-made gurus (Acaryas). This is BETRAYAL of Srila Prabhupada. They want to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada with THEMSELVES as Acaryas so that they go on with money screwing slavery making bogus conditioned soul (initiating “gurus”) business.
Let’s go back to 1977. These guys are just soooo ENVIOUS of Srila Prabhupada that they wanted to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada with THEMSELVES. HERE in this conversation you find Tamal Krsna was giving the hint of their POWER CRAZY Acarya usurp business. BUT Srila Prabhupada USED this to DENY them the ACARYA position by saying “I shall CHOOSE some guru. I SHALL SAY, “NOW YOU BECOME ACARYA. YOU BECOME AUTHORIZED. “Also note that May 5, 1972 LA Srila Prabhupada says “you are twelfth.” Rupanuga das is USING this to get his licence of Authorization BUT in 1977 he Srila Prabhupada is SPECIFIC: “I shall CHOOSE some guru. I SHALL SAY, “NOW YOU BECOME ACARYA. YOU BECOME AUTHORIZED:
Srila Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it’s clear fact that WE ARE ALL CONDITIONED SOULS, SO WE CANNOT BE GURU. Maybe one day it may be possible…
Srila Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: …but not now.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. I shall CHOOSE some guru. I SHALL SAY, “NOW YOU BECOME ACARYA. YOU BECOME AUTHORIZED.” I am waiting for that. You become all acarya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete. 770422r3.bom Conversations
Note: Srila Prabhupada KNEW they were NOT Mahabhagavata so they can NOT be Acarya. SIMPLE AS THAT! Srila Prabhupada says “I SHALL SAY”.”I shall CHOOSE some guru.” But what happened is Srila Prabhupada did NOT SAY they are ACARYA. They went to Srila Prabhupada in 1977 TO BE NOMINATED as Acarya. HOWEVER Srila Prabhupada ONLY gave them the Ritvik System with SPECIFIC Order of July 9th 1977:
Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. THEN OUR NEXT QUESTION CONCERNS INITIATIONS IN THE FUTURE, PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU’RE NO LONGER WITH US. WE WANT TO KNOW HOW FIRST AND SECOND INITIATION WOULD BE CONDUCTED.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acaryas.
Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya?
Srila Prabhupada: RTVIK, YES. 770528me.vrn Conversations
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca na guruh syad avaisnavah
((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. …When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.)) Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
Note: The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION. ****IF Srila Prabhupada would have ordered BEFORE 1977, then there would be no point in 1977 of him stating in 1977 WHEN I order. It was SPECIFICALLY in the year 1977 that Srila Prabhupada said “WHEN I order” NOT before, so AFTER the year 1977, WHERE is the evidence of THAT order?******
Srila Prabhupada:”WHEN I order, “You become guru,” he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.” Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan)
“Self-made guru cannot be guru. HE MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE BONA FIDE GURU. Then he’s guru. This is the fact. Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru.” (Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Nectar of Devotion, October 31. 1972)
“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is AUTHORIZED BY HIS PREDECESSOR SPIRITUAL MASTER. This is called diksa-vidhana.” (Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54, purport)
Srila Prabhupada: “Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A GURU CAN BECOME GURU WHEN HE’S ORDERED BY HIS GURU. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru. (Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
1) the Order was NOT given. This is WHY Srila Prabhupada says WHEN I order:
Mahesh Raja: Only Maha-Bhagavata is Diksa Guru
WHEN I order
Become Guru by Order, That’s All
What We Have Heard from the Spiritual Master, That is Living
Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple
2) to be a Mahabhagavata is NOT so cheap.
3)ONLY the PROMINENT Acarya is a ACCEPTED: Srila Prabhupada is PROMINENT ACARYA he IS Diksa Guru.
a) Srila Prabhupada’s books are QUOTED by ALL and WILL be QUOTED by ALL in future — so he is PROMINENT
b) Srila Prabhupada is worshiped as Jagad Guru in ALL his temples and ALL over the world — this will continue — so he is PROMINENT.
Srila Prabhupada: Regarding parampara system: THERE IS NOTHING TO WONDER FOR BIG GAPS. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYA, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to. 68-04-12. Letter: Dayananda
Srila Prabhupada: The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM IN THE INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want. 75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
“I AM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER OF THIS INSTITUTION, AND ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE SOCIETY, THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO BE MY DISCIPLES. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, AND THEY ARE INITIATED BY ME SPIRITUALLY.”(Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968)
“Guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya, ara na koriho mane asa. Don’t think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success.” (28th January, 1977, Room Conversation)
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO GO BACK TO GODHEAD IN ONE LIFE, BUT IN THE HUMAN FORM ONE SHOULD AT LEAST UNDERSTAND THE GOAL OF LIFE AND BEGIN KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS.
SB 3.15.24 P Description of the Kingdom of God
Note: It is NOT possible to go back to Godhead in ONE LIFE this is WHY we chant Janme Janme Prabhu sei — this means Srila Prabhupada is there with us in OTHER LIVES AFTER to finish OUR Jail term in this material world. HOW can one be LIBERATED Maha Bhagavata to deliver OTHERS if he HIMSELF is NOT delivered IN ONE LIFE:
Devotee: If we don’t finish our Krsna consciousness in this life, how we come in contact with the guru in next life?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that arrangement will be done, you go on with your business. We are singing this song daily. Why do you forget? Cakhu-dan dilo jei JANME JANME PRABHU SEI. ONE WHO HAS OPENED THE EYES, HE’LL REMAIN MY MASTER LIFE AFTER LIFE.
Bhavananda: spiritual master. Then when he reaches a certain point, he lets go. What is? What becomes of Him? He is also Mayavadi.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is Mayavadi philosophy. (break) philosophy, cakhudana dilo yei janme JANME PRABHU SEI. NAROTTAMA DASA THAKURA SINGS THAT, “ONE WHO HAS OPENED MY EYES, MY SPIRITUAL MASTER, HE’S MY FATHER, LIFE AFTER LIFE.” SO HOW HE CAN, HE CAN SAY, “GO AWAY NOW”? THAT IS MAYAVADA PHILOSOPHY.
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
“A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. SURRENDER BY YOUR INTELLIGENCE BUT DON’T SURRENDER YOUR INTELLIGENCE.” (SP to Bali Mardana, 1974)
Srila Prabhupada IS Diksa Guru
Only Maha-Bhagavata is Diksa Guru
Srila Prabhupada THE ONLY CURRENT ETERNAL DIKSA GURU for ISKCON for AS LONG AS ISKCON EXISTS – NO COMPROMISE!
Physically Present Diksa Guru
Note: Their REAL business of these CON men is to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada as Diksa guru so that they can SCREW money and USE others as their SLAVES:
Bhaktivedanta Manor Accounts SALARIES
Note: what these CON artists want is make it a OPEN order from Srila Prabhupada that they have got license to be Acarya by using:
yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa
āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa
BUT even that is REFUTED:
Mahesh Raja says:
13. February 2016 at 6:12 pm
Rupanuga das:….has just named and numbered, all of whom are directly initiating their own disciples.
Note : Mahesh: Bogus! “named and numbered” So—- WHERE is [are] the names IN THE LETTER? There is [are] NO names in that 1972 letter. This is just MANIPULATIVE CUNNING WORD JUGGLERY to fool the public from Rupanuga das.
Note: Rupanuga das says…… “all of whom are directly initiating their own disciples.”
These are ALL a gang of ROGUES. The disciples are FACTUALLY Srila Prabhupada’s BUT they STOLE them:
Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple
Brief History of Guru Hoax in ISKCON
Mahesh Raja says:
13. February 2016 at 6:57 pm
Rupanuga das quotes this Los Angeles arrival lecture, May 18, 1972 to JUSTIFY they are INITIATING gurus:
“So we have got this message from Krsna, from Caitanya Mahaprabhu, from the six Gosvamis, later on Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura. And we are trying our bit also to distribute this knowledge. Now, tenth, eleventh, twelfth. . . My Guru Maharaja is tenth from Caitanya Mahaprabhu, I am eleventh, you are the twelfth. So distribute this knowledge. ( Los Angeles arrival lecture, May 18, 1972 )
Note: this Lecture only states about DISTRIBUTE the KNOWLEDGE: “And we are trying our bit also to distribute this knowledge.” “So distribute this knowledge”.
It is about DISTRIBUTE KNOWLEDGE it is NOT saying they are DIKSA guru.
This has also been answered by the IRM folks long time back: